Curse

Boogz · Jan 22, 2011, 08:10 PM // 20:10

PvE content needs to be reworked, specially the overall prophecies campaign.

Let's face it, there's absolutely no difficult in doing all mission/bonus except for a very few ones;

the whole Tyria, whithout EotN content, can be vanquished with simply facerolling over keyboard, requires only patience and time (except for a few places at ascalon, where charr mesmer spam power block like hell)
Cantha and Elone requires no mention whatsover, both are simply easy to vanquish, with no "dificult area" or special mention.

War In Kryta gave life again to the Prophecies campaign, where you actually have some challenge and need to think before rushing into 4 mobs, instead of waiting your heroes to kill them.

Elona and Cantha need more love. I don't know if we're going to have a "WiK"-like at those continents, but I'd like to see at least more difficulty on them, like better skillbars for mobs at both NM and HM. right now a few mobs on those continents have good bars, most of them are pure crap.

right now, the activies that keep PvE alive are zaishen quests and title farm. There's absolutely no reason to do anything besides those things right now. I have people in my current guild that basically only play GW to farm, they haven't even completed a single campaign.
Things need to be more attractive, more challeging, or whatever - they just need to change, otherwise, as soon as GW2 launches, the GW PvE will be as active as PvP

FengShuiDove · Jan 22, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

Elona and Cantha need more love. I don't know if we're going to have a "WiK"-like at those continents, but I'd like to see at least more difficulty on them, like better skillbars for mobs at both NM and HM. right now a few mobs on those continents have good bars, most of them are pure crap.

See Cantha: Winds of Change.

Crom The Pale · Jan 22, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

It is getting rather tiresome reading "I facerolled this!" posts. If you want a challenge go to an elite zone or do some PvP.

The main PvE content is for story and learning and yes a bit of fun too. It was never meant to be a real challenge, though Hard Mode did give some a bit to think over it is still just a simple area not meant to be overly challenging.

RedDog91 · Jan 22, 2011, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

right now, the activies that keep PvE alive are zaishen quests and title farm

to be fair, thats also all thats keeping pvp alive too.

Boogz · Jan 22, 2011, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

It is getting rather tiresome reading "I facerolled this!" posts. If you want a challenge go to an elite zone or do some PvP.

The main PvE content is for story and learning and yes a bit of fun too. It was never meant to be a real challenge, though Hard Mode did give some a bit to think over it is still just a simple area not meant to be overly challenging.

that's exactly the problem. Even the elite zones are easily facerolled now, and that's what I intend to discuss at this thread: everything can be facerolled and thus it's losing its "magic"

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

See Cantha: Winds of Change.

thanks, didn't know the existance of that. Now we only have to hope that Elona gets included on the package.

RedDog91 · Jan 22, 2011, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boogz

that's exactly the problem. Even the elite zones are easily facerolled now, and that's what I intend to discuss at this thread: everything can be facerolled and thus it's losing its "magic"

then try VQ-ing elite areas with just 3 heros and no wiki builds.

honestly, the reason its easy is because people just use the same tired builds that are purposefully designed TO DO SOMETHING EXTREMELY WELL.

Xiaquin · Jan 22, 2011, 09:02 PM // 21:02

This is ridiculous. Why try to build up when power creep broke down the difficulty? Any semblance of "challenge" is met with Discordway, Spiritway, Imbagon, Infuser, Perma, etc. or layers of cons and DP remover.

There's plenty of challenge in the game and new content coming, the difficulty is just buried under easy buttons. Either play without them or don't complain.

Sankt Hallvard · Jan 22, 2011, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Conquered pve? Pve too easy? Pve boring?

Go PVP.

Servant of Kurama · Jan 22, 2011, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

This is ridiculous. Why try to build up when power creep broke down the difficulty? Any semblance of "challenge" is met with Discordway, Spiritway, Imbagon, Infuser, Perma, etc. or layers of cons and DP remover.

There's plenty of challenge in the game and new content coming, the difficulty is just buried under easy buttons. Either play without them or don't complain.

This this this this this.

Here, try this: go to your build templates list and delete ALL of them. Now remove all the skills from your skill bar and your heroes' bars. Now make the skillbars yourself. Since you're not copy-pasting from the wiki now, there should be some sort of challenge without the cookie-cutter builds!

Black Metal · Jan 22, 2011, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Each campaign introduced a little power creep, and with the increasing crazy amount of skill combos / bar builds, there's something for everything.

If Proph is too easy, go back to how it was originally: core and proph-only skills, no heroes.

As for enemy bars being crap, that's because (unlike you) they didn't copy stuff off PvX, and they can only use that campaign + core skills.

This will only continue if **coughwhen** we get 7 heroes - it's not meant to make facerolling through Pockmark Flats easier.

Fay Vert · Jan 22, 2011, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Increasing hte difficulty of an area just means that you are forced to use fewer and fewer optimal builds. Way to make the game boring. If the game is too easy for you then try a different build or smaller party size. The game isn't boring, the way many people chose to play it is.

Shame ANet added the loot nerf to discourage play in smaller parties. That was really stupid, or would be if it worked that way.

LifeInfusion · Jan 22, 2011, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Want a challenge? Try playing HM without necros or Ritualists, PVE skills, cons , and stuff like Shadowform (PvE splits). Or do PvP.

EDIT: and Prophecies skills are crap for the most part, that's why you think it's so easy.

Div · Jan 22, 2011, 10:23 PM // 22:23

The hard thing for Anet is to balance it both "good" and "veteran" players and "bad" and "casual" players. A good player with optimal skill choice will roll through most areas, with or without consumables. The casual player who doesn't care about what skills they choose or who enjoys going in with "more creative"/subpar bars, henchies, and no consumables will have a very difficult time completing the tasks you deemed so easy. Anet's response is creating elite areas for the more advanced players, but unfortunately there has been enough outcry from the general public that those areas are becoming easier and easier (through consumables, etc.)

It's also really hard when the public calls any good builds "wiki builds." It gives a bad name for making good choices and running optimal (or near-optimal) builds. A good player sees synergies between key skills and uses them, and as a result of it being good, it gets posted to wiki. There's a reason why bad builds don't make it very far. Yes, it's fun to play what people call "creative builds" but the reality of it is that they're nowhere near optimal. Any "creative build" that is any good soon goes on wiki and becomes a "wiki build" again.

AndrewSX · Jan 22, 2011, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Here, try this: go to your build templates list and delete ALL of them. Now remove all the skills from your skill bar and your heroes' bars. Now make the skillbars yourself. Since you're not copy-pasting from the wiki now, there should be some sort of challenge without the cookie-cutter builds!

Done this for vanquishing Tyria and....it was succesfull, but also a LOT more challenging and funny.

You should also consider as said above the introduction of any sort of easy-mode: Dp remover, overpowerd pve skills and heroes for example.

Finally, i'm not at this point yet but...when you'll beat the whole game in PvE and get your GWAMM, try PvP. It will be a shock imo.

novawhiz · Jan 22, 2011, 11:45 PM // 23:45

The only thing that killed pve was when they added Heroes + retarded pve skills/consumables. That in itself made GW soloable and really ruined the game pve wise. Titles were a genius addition and really are the only thing that allowed this game to not be 100% dead for the past couple of years.

At this point, id rather they just focus all their energy on getting gw2 released. This little fun mini campaign additions are really nice and all, but dont really add anything substantial to the game. Yay WiK, now i get a couple hours at most of enjoyment from some new quests. then what? doesnt keep people hooked.

Honestly, instead of WiK and new cantha and all that, they should have just made a new End-pve area like UW/fow/doa and let everyone be entertained by that for the next year while they focus on getting gw2 out. At the very least, they should(ve) made the new pve content team based and not just a line of quests you do with your generic hero setup

miskav · Jan 22, 2011, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by novawhiz

The only thing that killed pve was when they added Heroes + retarded pve skills/consumables. That in itself made GW soloable and really ruined the game pve wise. Titles were a genius addition and really are the only thing that allowed this game to not be 100% dead for the past couple of years.

At this point, id rather they just focus all their energy on getting gw2 released. This little fun mini campaign additions are really nice and all, but dont really add anything substantial to the game. Yay WiK, now i get a couple hours at most of enjoyment from some new quests. then what? doesnt keep people hooked.

Honestly, instead of WiK and new cantha and all that, they should have just made a new End-pve area like UW/fow/doa and let everyone be entertained by that for the next year while they focus on getting gw2 out. At the very least, they should(ve) made the new pve content team based and not just a line of quests you do with your generic hero setup

The people working on gw1 don't work on gw2, your point is invalid.

Black Metal · Jan 22, 2011, 11:59 PM // 23:59

novawhiz, you should familiarize yourself with this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Beyond

from which I'll pull the operative quote out:

"Guild Wars Beyond is "an ongoing campaign that expands upon the Guild Wars storyline by focusing on key characters and historical events that shape the world in the years leading up to Guild Wars 2."[1] Produced by the Live Team, game updates will be continuously released over the coming year to help "set the stage" for Guild Wars 2. "

Ninja Dude · Jan 23, 2011, 12:08 AM // 00:08

PvE doesn't need to be made harder. You can tell 95% of the time if you're party's going to crash and burn or succeed before you even start an area. Putting a variety of enemy builds in the game would just make it frustrating to play through as you may need to spend money to modify heros or create diffirent armor sets for different builds. I like the fact that I only have to switch between 3 builds for myself and several combinations of heros to do vanquishes. I don't want to have to change them constantly. There are already areas in the game that require thought and challenge. PvE title grinding areas don't need this.

/notsigned

novawhiz · Jan 23, 2011, 12:11 AM // 00:11

yeah i understand its supposed to act as a bridge, but its just kinda pointless. They introduce it, everyone logs in all excited, does it in a couple days and then just goes back inactive. If they actually wanted to improve pve life they would add some sort of new content that forces team play, such as a new end game area

gremlin · Jan 23, 2011, 12:12 AM // 00:12

The problem convincing anet to do something is we cannot agree amongst ourselves what they should do.

It seems to me one problem is power creep where we now have access to more powerful skills and builds than a few years back.
Reducing the power is an obvious measure but then there will be an outcry from many players.
Easy to give shiny new toys not so easy to take them away.

To be honest I don't have any answers because what is needed is something easy to impliment

I think new players can still have a pretty good experience, its the older players that are looking for challenges.

Mind you its pretty easy to be challenged just don't take your uber build try something new leave out the consumables maybe even run a smaller party.
Whatever it takes to make the game difficult for you.